I'm not sure how useful a concept of "There is no free will" is as practical theology. For instance, the apostle Paul seems to not buy it, by the fact that he tells his flocks how to live, and expects them to live by his God-given definition of the Christian Life. If we are rather to live by the idea that we are not able to make decisions, then why be told how to live, and why decide to live according to something?
While a discussion of whether or not free will can truly result from a given set of assumptions is possibly useful in the realm of philosophers, I wonder if that argument among ministers of the Gospel is another example of trying to be over-logical about the faith, trying to fit everything into a nice neat box.
That's something I'm not sure on, the role of logical extrapolation in Christianity. For I believe that it is the one religion that makes sense over all others, and know cases of conversions resulting from a careful examination of the facts. And I know cases of conversions AWAY from the Faith resulting from a fundamentalism that discourages thought or any hint of using our minds. However, I also know that we now see as through a glass, dimly, and having a transcendant God, when we extrapolate certain statements to their "logical conclusion" we often land outside the realm of the tenets of the faith and what is stated in Scripture.
I guess if I knew exactly where to draw the line, that would be yet another nice neat box; and the Faith does not seem to be made up of such.
posted by Kibble @ 9:53 AM
6 comments
6 Comments:
Theologically, "free will" is man's own ability to prepare himself for grace. Pastorally, this works out as saying that you need to make sure you're doing your part in order for God to grant you salvation and his peace.
The abstract question about the ability in general to make choices is indeed pretty silly.
Ok. I had to respond to this one and I'll apologize in advance for the length. I have to disagree with both Tim and Josh. Free will is defined by those who hold to it as the ability to make decisions without anything predetermining it. I disagree with Tim about Paul's position on this. Paul absolutely believed that we did not have free will. Romans 9 is full of references to our inability to choose. It also references Pharaoh and the fact that God hardened his heart. This wasn't just so that Pharaoh wouldn't be saved. It is so that Pharaoh would act in a certain way in order that God could demonstrate His glory to both the Egyptians and the Israelites. Paul's discussion on free will culminates in his anticipation of an important objection: "How can God find fault, for who resists His will?" We can't resist the will of God and have no free will of our own, but yet we are still held responsible for our actions and sins. This is why Paul can exhort his readers to live by faith and still hold that we don't have free will. God is totally and completely sovereign and we are responsible. Notice that Paul doesn't attempt to explain this paradox, he simply leaves it as it is and challenges us to submit to the Word of God.
I also do not believe that this is an abstract question that should be discussed mainly by philosophers and disconnected theologians. It is intensely practical. First, it results in a complete dependence on God. If we know that we are not capable of choosing what is pleasing to God on our own but are reliant on the Holy Spirit to change our wills, then we will turn to God all the more and rest on His grace. Second, it results in a fullness of joy in our salvation. If we recognize that we have no free will in our salvation and no ability to choose God, then our joy that God choose us should be unrivaled. We cannot choose God so we can't do it ourselves. If we think deeply about hell and our inability to escape from it then we will respond with absolute joy in God's election and our lack of ability. Third, our lack of free will results in a knowledge that all events and evil deeds performed by others that come our way are not random, but were predetermined by God. This means that someone's evil intent in persecuting a Christian was under God's sovereign will and this gives us comfort in knowing that God is always there in the midst of the storm, He is controlling it, and He will keep His promise to cause all things to turn out for good. We can trust Him completely. Finally in this brief defense, it reveals the glory of God and demonstrates the completeness of His sovereignty. It takes all the focus off of us and places it where it belongs. Now, when we do a good work, we know that it comes from God (Eph. 2:10). When we are persecuted, we know that it comes from God to bring us to a deeper faith. When we sin, we know that God allowed it to happen to bring us back to Him and love Him even deeper. It demonstrates the completeness of the Word. Isaiah 45 talks about how God predetermined to use Cyrus as an instrument of punishment to the Israelites. Cyrus didn't have any say in the matter. He couldn't back out of it. He couldn't tell God no. He will still be held accountable for the sins he committed. God was sovereign over Cyrus' will and Cyrus was still responsible. I can't explain the paradox, and I won't try because Paul didn't try. But I know that it exists.
I hope this is helpful and I welcome any feedback that you would have to give.
Darren, you're talking about philosophy, not theology. Furthermore, I don't know of any philosophers who hold to such a radically existentialist notion of free will. Philosophically, the only folks around today who regard humans entirely as automata are Darwinists and extreme Calvinists.
The theological term, "liberatum arbitium," which generally gets translated as "free will" in English systematic theologies, means exactly what I said it means. It is the ability of man to in some manner direct himself to salvation.
This block is dead, yo.
Not dead, just mostly dead. I haven't had time to respond to your comment yet, but I intend to.
OFFTOPIC ALERT!
So I'm just saying hi to Tim and Amy since I havn't in a while.
How's it going? I did hear about the baby from Josh (as well as seeing it on here), so late congratulations!
Anyway let me know how you are doing sometime... I still have my google mail, but if you need it, its my last name followed by the number 47 at gmail dot com
Later
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